Interview: Author, Daniel Goleman

Daniel Goleman began his career studying and traveling the world. His first book “The Meditative Mind,” was written after his travels to India, Asia and Sri Lanka to study meditation. While in these countries Goleman studied first hand the ancient art of meditation and the psychological aspects of it. His study of meditation, and the psychology of meditation, led Goleman to continue to study the human mind as a psychologist, as well as a journalist and author.

Goleman is now a two-time Pulitzer Prize nominee, as well as an elected Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.  He was also awarded a Career Achievement award for journalism for the American Psychological Association. One of Goleman’s most popular books was “Emotional Intelligence” was on the New York Times bestseller list for over a year and a half, selling over 5 million copies.

Goleman’s most recent book is “Ecological Intelligence.” This book argues how people need to be smart shoppers, and know what all goes into their products before buying them.  Goleman shows how products can have hidden environmental impacts that the consumer needs to be aware of.  “Ecological Intelligence” examines how the “Green Movement” is a mirage and how consumers must become more proactive in their purchases in this new movement. The following is an interview with Daniel Goleman on his most recent novel “Ecological Intelligence,” and the green movement.

Q: Can you begin by explaining how you got interested in the ecological intelligence and the green movement?

Goleman. I started as a psychologist and the key for me was a book I wrote a long time ago called “Vital Lies.” When I wrote the book in the forward I said, the biggest collective is that we complain about the destruction of the rainforest, acid rain and all kinds of environmental problems, but we don’t see that we are the cause. It is our habits of consumption and behavior that are driving the forces that are slowly destroying the earth, yet we don’t make the connection in our everyday lives. That was the big psychological enigma that got me intrigued by the question of what we can do about it. More recently I heard about new information systems that close the loop between what we do, how it impacts the earth and our health. That was what motivated me to write the book “Ecological Intelligence.”

Q: What advice would you give to college students on ecological intelligence? Since we live on a very small fixed budget is it possible for us to be as ecologically friendly? What are some ways to do this?

Goleman. I think the best thing you can do is to look at the stuff you buy every week you know your shampoo, laundry detergent or your food (if you cook yourself), and to go to www.goodguide.com to look it up. There you will find summarized in a single rating 1-10 score, 10 the best and 1 is pretty bad, the ecological impacts of what you buy. If they are good, good for you, but if they are not good it also immediately shows you competing products, and you can then choose something better. Right there you have done something to help yourself, and to help the world.

Q: In the past many of the great movements have been influenced by college students and protests, do you see the same happening for becoming more ecologically friendly?

Goleman. I’m really looking to younger people to make this dream possible because what I see is that there is now because of GoodGuide and similar systems, much of information to help everyone who shops. They can help the planet every time they buy something by getting something better. Older people frankly aren’t that comfortable, or used to using these systems. It is going to really make a difference by multiplying your impact, such as by twittering while you shop, or putting it on Facebook. The more people spread that news the more it’s going to change how industry operates, and make it shift to better practices. Younger people will do that because younger people are more motivated and savvier. This is a movement waiting to happen for college people.

Q: The organic movement is a huge movement in society today, but as you discuss in your book, this is somewhat a scam. An “organic cotton” shirt may not be great for the environment, as most people would expect. What are some flaws in the organic movement that the general public is unaware of?

Goleman. In any product where they just really improve one narrow slice is a scam, what we should think of is not green, but getting greener perpetually by finding ways to improve impacts all one way. Organic clothing, its nice they didn’t use pesticides and fertilizers to grow the cotton, but it turns out that organic cotton fibers are shorter than other ones so you have to grow more cotton per garment. Cotton uses enormous amounts of water and is usually grown in very arid parts of the world, so its stealing water from other uses and local communities. You can’t really think it’s virtuous just because they are growing organic cotton. We need to be more sophisticated about all of the impacts of everything that is made. For example so you grew cotton now you have to process that cotton. Do you know what chemicals are used to process it? Do you know the working conditions of the people who made it for you? If it is cheap and it’s fashionable, it was probably made in a sweatshop somewhere. That’s the only way in the supply chain you can turn things around quickly enough, and at low enough cost, to be competitive. So our appetite for cheap trendy fashion actually makes young women in the poorest parts of the world suffer by having to work 18-hour-days. We don’t think of that when we buy our nice, nifty and supposedly “green” clothes because we don’t think enough about the secret history of our stuff.

Q: Part of the problem is that companies continue to put out these bad products. Do you think a campus such as Virginia Tech, which has over 27,000 students, could change these practices?

Goleman. I’ll tell you a little secret, companies are desperate for your business; and by you I mean college aged people. If there was a movement among college aged people to know the truth about the ecological health impacts of what we buy, and college students started to spread the word about what to buy, you would see a panic from brand managers to change. College students have a huge amount of power, if they would use it. So 27,000 at Virginia Tech and then you each know 30-50 students at different schools. Lets say Virginia Tech said we’re going to be the spearhead of this movement to get industry to change its practices so that we can have a healthier world in the future. Then you could be organized on campus and then spread to other campuses because of all the natural social relationships people have. That would truly shake industry and change how people operate.

Q: Virginia Tech has implemented many sustainable aspects such as selling locally grown food and having sustainable buildings, but what other things can college campuses do?

Goleman. One of the main things people can do is to raise the bar on what people mean by sustainability. For example a “green” building today means it saves on heating, water, energy and so on but what about everything in that building? What about the glazing and the paints? What about the chemicals? Is there stainless steel in the building? Stainless steel is a combination of iron ore, nickel, and chromium. Rock chrome ore is actually a carcinogen. It is mined in places of the world such as India, where they do not have the best safe guards. In other words you can look into things more deeply and ask more of producers that they take a second look at their standard practices.

Q: Do you think the general public can make the major shift it takes to become more ecologically intelligent?

Goleman. I think it doesn’t take getting everybody involved, but instead getting enough people involved. Enough people can make companies rethink how they make things, what substances they use and so on. The reason is market share, which is what percent of the market a brand controls, and is absolutely crucial. A change is just a few points, but is extremely significant. A company may gain or lose a few points, so it would be worth them making a change. Not only that but if it was a college student movement, the way companies think is that this is a customer for the next 50 or 60 years. Whatever college students do, from a marketing point of view, carries a premium because of the multiplier effect over decades. This is why swaying your brand preference is absolutely crucial to company survival in the future.

Q: Do you have any other advice for college students?

Goleman. First, take your standard shopping list, check it out on GoodGuide, and see if you can find improvements. Second, tell everybody you know. If you find that something you buy regularly has some bad stuff in it, and tell them what’s the better choice. Another website is www.skindeep.com. It rates every personal care product. It lists every ingredient and matches them to medical databases to see if they’re toxic, and ranks them for what is completely safe or risky.